ceiling, which we are about to smack up against. the doom and gloom reporter every morning about the debt ceiling. so spending and debt ceiling to a large degree, while they are connected, they are different conversations. debt ceiling, we have spent that money. that a difficult from verizon that has come due you have to pay. >> you are borrowing more money to spend in the future. we are borrowing money to pay off past debts. no. if we weren't doing more deficit spending, we wouldn't have to borrow more money. the debt ceiling, last one could you say, the debate was messy. we didn't get a downgrade because the results of that debate didn't solve the problem. president obama, after he got his tax increase, the tax part of his balanced approach, when he came out and said, okay, now, the debt ceiling is off the table, not going to negotiate it -- >> because it's spent, right? $16 trillion national debt. that's money that has been committed by congress. it's been committed by the very people who will fight over whether we should pay the